Interviews

Stephanie: Hello and welcome to Making it to the Mic, a podcast about how different voice actors got to where they are today. I’m your host Stephanie Pam Roberts, and my guest today is Jessica Taylor. Jessica is a Colorado-based voice actor and mom who’s been doing voiceover for over 10 years. She openly shares her experiences on the ups and downs of this career, and I think it will resonate with so many of you. So let’s dive in. Here’s my conversation with Jessica Taylor. Hey Jessica, how are you today?

Jessica: Hi, I’m well. How are you?

Stephanie: I’m good. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

Jessica: You bet. I love podcasts. I love getting to know talent. I don’t know.

Stephanie: Yeah, same. It’s been really cool for me to get to interview a bunch of people that I’ve never met in person or even on Facebook before, so I’m really glad that you’re here. So, I always start by asking everyone the same question, which is, how did you make it to the mic and what did you do before voiceover?

Jessica: In high school I did lots and lots and lots of theater and was like a theater-focused kid. I was going to go to college for acting, essentially. I was accepted into a handful of top programs, NYU Boston University. I was waitlisted at Julliard, Carnegie Mellon Musical Theater, and my parents were getting divorced at the time. They had me when I was quite young. They were 21, and I just don’t think college was like on the list of things they needed to prepare for. I just learned there was no money for me to pursue that in that way. And I was not comfortable going into what would’ve been, I don’t know, at that time, $150,000 in debt. That was out of my comfort zone. So, I went to massage school and I wanted to find a way to support myself while I continued to pursue theater, which ended up being, and this is going to tie in with voiceover, so ended up being kind of like an undercurrent for me.

I ended up moving from Minneapolis to Colorado and I’ve been here since ’98. So I continued to do on stage. I got an on camera agent. I ended up doing some work at the Denver Center in some Shakespeare that was all going great, and I thought I was going to continue to pursue that. And then when I did this job at the Denver Center, I was seeing these people – women who were like at the top of their game. They lived these lives where they went from regional theater to regional theater. And I was like, “Oh, this is what it means to be a successful onstage actress.” And I was like, “I don’t think I want that.” So it was really good for me to see that in person. I was actually had a moving truck scheduled to move to New York, and then September 11th happened, and both of these things were kind of happening at the same time, me seeing like what my life might be like if I continued in this path, and then September 11th, and I was like, “Okay, I don’t think this is what I want.” I ended up staying in Colorado and I met my now husband one week. Our first date was one week after September 11th.

Stephanie: Oh my gosh.

Jessica: That just like, kind of pivoted me and I continued doing some on stage, but it kind of dwindled after that. And my massage career was like taking off like crazy. I was working on NFL players. I was working on musical theater people actually who came on tour. So I had like this different skillset, but also understanding actors. So I was like a pretty talented deep tissue therapist. Like, people came to me to get rid of aches and pains or so that they could run the triathlon or do the Leadville 100, like super tough Colorado athletes. And I got to the point where my business was so thriving that I started hiring people to work for me because I no longer had enough time. And what I discovered in that is that I really loved owning a business. Like I loved it more than doing massage. I loved the marketing. I loved the development. Like, oh, now I’m going to do this, and now I’m going to do this. How can I grow this business? Like I had online scheduling 10 years before anybody thought about online scheduling, like when it was in its infancy. And that was really exciting and people loved it.

While I was doing that, I did a, a, an on camera corporate job, and I met a woman, her name is Tia Marlier, and she was like, the voice in Denver. Like, everybody, this voice, you heard it all the time. She was big voice talent in Denver at the time. She and I met and she became a client of my business. I would record an outgoing voicemail every day, “Hi, thanks for calling Serenity Now Massage Therapy. Tomorrow we have openings at one o’clock, two o’clock, three o’clock.” And Tia would call and listen to these because she wanted to get a massage appointment, and she’d be like, “Jessica, you have got to start doing voiceover.” And I was like, “Ha, Tia, you’re so funny. That’s cute. I’m running a business now, I’m like not doing acting so much.” And she goes, “Well, just file it away.” I was like, “Okay, I’ll file it away.” So I ran my business for 10 years and then I closed it when the market crashed in 2008, because massage was just like the last thing on everybody’s list because money was an issue.

I had a three month old, my oldest son, and it was like another one of these times where kind of, of like, your circumstances point you to what’s next. And so I was like, I’m going to shut this down and now I’m going to stay home with my kids. So I stayed home with my kids, had three boys, stayed home with them for 10 years. During that time we lived overseas for four years. So we did lots of travel, which has been a big theme in my life. We came back to Colorado and my youngest was getting ready to start kindergarten. I was talking with my mom. She’s like, “Are you going to go back to work?” And I said, “You know, I would really like to find something new to do. I really need a business and I really need it to be creative.” And she said, “You know, I made a new friend who narrates audio books. Do you want to meet her when you come to Minnesota this summer?” I was like, “Yes, I do.”

So I went and met with her and she showed me what her day was like, the kinds of things that she did. She like really got me out on the right foot. Like some voice talent come into the business and I feel like they don’t – like, they may not meet up with the right people at the right time, and so I am so grateful that she was the first person I met because she was like, this is a good company. This is a good company. This is a good coach. You know, like she had this whole document for me. And by the way, I have really tried to pay that forward with other people.

Stephanie: Oh, I love that.

Jessica: Yeah, so I’ve done that at every opportunity when people ask about how to get into voiceover. I left that day. I mean, it was like – we were, my mom and I were driving back to her house and I said, “Well, that’s it. That’s what I got to do.” I didn’t know how much money, voice talent made. I didn’t know how you got work, really. I mean, I knew nothing, but I was like, that is the perfect thing for me. It is creative. It is hugely entrepreneurial. It is very flexible so that I can continue to be an involved parent with my kids, which has always been a priority. So really, what I saw was like this opportunity for a career that would meet my personal needs and at the same time support the lifestyle that I wanted to have. And I will credit Natasha Marchevca for this statement, but I took her Master VO To-Do List course before I even had a reason to have a, to-do list. I didn’t even have a to-do list other than like learn how to do voiceover. And she was like, “Well, what’s your goal? And she said, well, my goal is to make full-time income in part-time hours.” And I was like, “Yep, that’s my goal too. Perfect.” That’s my goal. That’s my goal. Full-time income part-time hours, couldn’t be better. So that has always been my goal.

Stephanie: I love that. And I feel like everyone that I talk to has such like a different story about how they got here, but there’s so many elements that are the same. Like something, they needed a change or something just wasn’t quite working. They’d always been interested in voiceover. It was always kind of in the back. Like, there’s always something that seems to overlap in everybody’s story, which I think is so fascinating. So when did you reach six figures for the first time?

Jessica: It was in year two that I started.

Stephanie: Oh, cool. And what was your first year of like, I’m a voice actor, this is my business now.

Jessica: So remember I told you about Tia. So I come home from that trip from Minnesota, and I called Tia. I hadn’t talked to her in 10, 12 years. And I said, “Hey, Tia, it’s Jessica Taylor. I’m ready to start voiceover.” And she was like, “So interesting because I am currently an agent at Go Voices.” She was about to leave because she didn’t love the agent lifestyle. It was just too much like nine to five for her after having been a talent for so long. And she said, but I’m coaching now. And I said, “Let’s start coaching. Let’s coach once a week. I’m not going to ask you. I just want you to tell me when you think I’m ready to record a demo.” She was like, great. So I coached for maybe eight weeks once a week, and she said, “You’re ready to record a demo.” I was like, great.

So I met her at my local studio, Coupe Studios here in Boulder. It was very latchkey, kind of like I was choosing copy. It was not the ideal demo scenario, but it completely worked. I recorded a commercial and a corporate demo. I sent them to Go Voices on her recommendation. I’m sure she put in a good word for me because I was not a working talent. I had never recorded a project, but they took me. They took me, I booked something fairly quickly. It was a radio job, and then I booked a $40,000 job for Nature Made.

Stephanie: Wow.

Jessica: That was my second job ever.

Stephanie: Oh my gosh. That’s amazing.

Jessica: And I got the call from Laura at Go Voices and I started crying when she told me.

Stephanie: I bet!

Jessica: I had been a stay at home mom for 10 years. And I was like, yes, being a mother is the most rewarding job, but it doesn’t send you any money. You know, like I had really missed that external gratification of being paid. Like, I had done that for a long time. And so I went to my husband who makes an excellent living, and he’s like, “I have meetings. I’ve got three meetings. I don’t know that I can take the kids.” The kids were younger then. And I said, “You know this is a $40,000 job that I’ll make. I’ll make this in about three hours tomorrow.”

Stephanie: My gosh.

Jessica: He was like, “Okay, I’ll see what I can do.” It was just the funniest moment. So I went and recorded that job. I really started voiceover full time is the answer to your question. So it’s not a typical start. I just think like, everything was really in alignment for me to get going. Like, it just was everything was a yes, yes, yes, yes. That didn’t last forever though. It never does as we know. And I would say that in a way, while it was so exciting and it’s such a cool story, it kind of made me start with false hopes. Like, oh, I’m just going to book a $40,000 job every once a month, and it wasn’t like that. So I booked that job – the next month after that, I was excited to do a voicemail for a hundred dollars for a company in Dubai. And it was like the biggest re – I was like, “Oh, this is a rollercoaster. This is not steady income. This is up and down and up and down.” And that is pretty much all, it’s been.

It’s mostly been up, but the last two years I’ve come down a bit. Every year I’ve had some really big campaigns that have renewed. This is the very first year since I started that. I don’t have any big renewals. So I would say – like really big, like thousands of dollars like in three years in a row. So I’ve called this 2024 is like my first honest year of voiceover. It’s like, okay, now I really need to be marketing more. I can’t simply rely on those bigger projects. So it’s been more of a hustle, and while those renewals are, of course, no one’s going to say that those aren’t fun, it has really made me dig into marketing more, which is really what I learned that I loved when I had my massage business. And all along I’ve been marketing. but things just kind of fell in my lap for a while. But now also with AI, one of my big projects, like national campaigns was for Dixie paper plates. And they renewed that for three years in a row, multi spot campaign, and just this last year they didn’t renew it. And I went and looked the spot up on iSpot. And it was the exact same campaign, same format of the commercial, and it was an AI voice on the tag. And I was just like, “Oh my God. You have to be kidding.” So strategically, I’m trying to move to places where there’s less competition from everything.

I’ve moved into political, which I love it because it can be a little more. I come from theater, so like sometimes my persona is a little big for the mic. That’s been one of my challenges performance wise, but political can be really dramatic and like you can really go for it. And I love that about political. And also medical narration. My brain just loves – I love the tough stuff. Like, give me the big words, give me the technical stuff. And that’s a smaller segment of VO talent who either like it or can do it, and I actually love it. It’s so much fun. So that has been just a strategy of going where people aren’t as much. That’s been a way for me to find my work.

Stephanie: I feel like that’s so smart because there’s a lot of us doing direct marketing and a lot of people out there that I think are probably lining up sending the same emails to the same people, so I like the zig when others are zagging or vice versa to make yourself have your own little spot.

Jessica: Yeah. You know you have to find like your mix your marketing mix. So I do, I still do cold emails. I’ve tried a few lately that are more like, “Is this the 10th email from a voice talent you’ve received today?”

Stephanie: Has anyone responded to that?

Jessica: No, not really. Which kind of surprised me. You know, I thought it would be like, people would be like, “Oh my God, thank you for acknowledging the fact that we’re fielding these talent emails all day long.” No, it actually hasn’t tested that well. But that’s okay. I’m learning to get… well, not learning. I mean, I’ve been pretty good at just getting past rejection. I mean, if you can’t handle rejection, I would not suggest being a voice talent because even for the most confident, this can be hard. It can be really hard.

Stephanie: Yeah. And I think it’s like, back to what you were saying about the ups and downs, like financially, it can be hard in that way too. I think all of us that have been doing this for a while have some story of a year that was awesome and a year that was terrible. My daughter was born in 2017, and the biggest job that I had had to date was a virtual assistant, like TTS voice. And I had a ton of session fees that year and a buyout for $60,000. And I was like, this is awesome.

Jessica: Nice.

Stephanie: And then that buyout was supposed to be for couple more years, I think it was like three years total. And then after that I was like, “Oh, I have to make up for that income because that’s not there anymore.” And I think that that is really tough. And especially because if you book a large campaign, sometimes you don’t know the final total. And you don’t know how long they’re going to play it. And you don’t know how many weeks it’s going to be renewed for. And then all of a sudden you’re like, you’re still getting checks, and then all of a sudden the checks stop and you’re like, oh, was that it? Okay, I guess we’ll cap it there for this year. So yeah, that can be really, really challenging, especially for people who I know like, I love to have a plan and there’s not much financial planning that you can actually do in this career. I’ve decided I think you can hope and you can do your best goal setting, but at the end of the day, if you book a sag, national campaign one year and you don’t book it the next year, that’s going to be a difference of income.

Jessica: Well, in full honesty, about six months ago, I was like, “Hmm, maybe I need to be a day trader now.” There are moments where I’ve been like, maybe I’ve ridden this wave and I’m not the sound anymore. But then like, as soon as I have that, when I truly feel that, the next day I’ll book something. It’s like, the universe is like, “No, no, you’re good. Keep going, keep going.” But it knows when I’ve hit, like where the confidence is really low. Like, oh God!

Stephanie: How do you mentally deal with those ups and downs?

Jessica: For me, it’s really – oh, well, I will say coaching. I have worked regularly with Nancy Wolfson and she has helped me out of some tough moments, I will say. You know, she’ll just be like, you can’t complain until you haven’t booked anything in 200 auditions. I’ll be like, what? You know, and I’m complaining after 50. If you have a coach who can give you a really good pep talk and remind you of what you’re good at, which she has been really good at doing for me, I think that can help.

Stephanie: I love that. Just someone else to bounce it off of, because I feel like we can really get in our own heads, this is such a solo business, and all of a sudden I’m like, “Oh, my audio must not be good anymore.” Like, nothing has changed, but I start second guessing every little everything.

Jessica: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like the spiral, the doubt spiral.

Stephanie: Yeah. I find that too when I’m like, “That’s it. I’m never booking voiceover work again.” And someone’s like, “Oh, by the way, we have a job for you.” I’m like, “Oh, thank goodness, I’ll stay, I’ll stay.”

Jessica: I really enjoy the roster work. I like to get on – I like to be on company’s rosters. Just kind of like you, you get that shortlist, you’re automatically on a shortlist because the roster is small. So I’ve focused on doing that kind of work, and for me, that kind of work is worth less money because I don’t have to audition, I don’t have to go find it. And not that rosters pay less, but they do. I mean, yeah, they pay a bit less because they’re bringing the work to you. Rarely do I have to audition for it. Just in terms of marketing things that I’ve done, one thing that I think is maybe different, some talent feel this way, but we do a fair amount of traveling, and I don’t travel with equipment.

Stephanie: Me either. It stresses me out.

Jessica: I have three kids, like I’m not going to try and get some quiet in a hotel room with three kids, and I want to like go and do what I want to do. So this last fall, we go to every rugby world cup. It’s every four years. So we were in the one in Japan five years ago, and then last year in the fall, it was in France and Switzerland. Well, it was in France, but we traveled to Switzerland and France. I booked two, three jobs while we were gone, and I just went to a studio and paid them for their time. And it is the best marketing to do that instead of – for me, I guess I can’t speak for everybody, but to go and pay somebody, they work with you and then they’re like, “Wow, you’re pretty good.” Instead of sending an email to those people…

This one company I had been trying to get on with them for five years in France, a studio, well, guess what? I was in France, I booked a job, I contacted them. I said, “Are you available? I have a project I need to record.” They ended up not getting my email in time, and I ended up going somewhere else, but it was just – and then he took me seriously because I had a job that I needed recorded and I was going to be a customer. And I was there for the Rugby World Cup. And he was like, “You’re a rugby fan. You’re American. You’re not supposed to be a rugby fan.” And it started this whole like, chat, because I was in his country interested in what he was interested in. I ended up recording a project with them a couple weeks ago.

Stephanie: Oh, that’s so cool. I, I love stories like that.

Jessica: The studio that I actually ended up recording that project at, they loved my work. And I’ve recorded three or four projects for them. You know, you’re paying for studio time, but when you give people money, it’s like this reciprocal, instead of just sending an email asking for something, can I be on your roster?

Stephanie: Yeah. And then you’re also, like you said, just furthering the relationship and showing them exactly what you can deliver instead of just them having to take your word for it by reading your email saying, “I’m great, hire me.”

Jessica: Yeah. So I turn those situations into marketing opportunities whenever I can.

Stephanie: Do you tell your clients that you’re going away still and that you could potentially book a studio? Like, do you still give them a heads up or you just figure if they need you, you’ll book the studio and they don’t have to know.

Jessica: If I am kind of in the middle of a project, I would let my client know that we either need to wrap it up before I leave. This is the date I’m leaving, I’m giving you 10 days notice. Or there’s a possibility I might need to book a studio while I’m gone, and then I could tack that work on while I do that. And obviously, I only book a studio for a really, a good paying job that’s worth interrupting my vacation and paying for that studio time. So, those are usually agent jobs or pay to play things. But then, usually clients are like, “Yeah, we can wrap it up before you leave, or we can do it when you get back.” So, I just kind of expect that it’s going to work out and it kind of always does. I’ve never really disappointed anybody.

Stephanie: Yeah, same. Once before my daughter was born, I took a laptop. First of all, I don’t even own a laptop anymore. I have a desktop computer. But when I did have a laptop, I took the laptop and the hard drive and the Mbox and the microphone to – we were meeting family in Banner Elk, North Carolina. We were staying in like an Airbnb, so it was no kids or anything. And I thought, “Oh, this’ll be great. Like, I’ll knock out some auditions while we’re there.” And we drove, so I didn’t have to worry about flying with equipment. I had one agent audition, but I was like sitting down, like holding something over my head, trying to hold up the paper, trying to read.

Jessica: It’s the worst.

Stephanie: I just said like, I can’t, this is not my best work. And this was even before home studios and your sound really needed to be topnotch, even in auditions. And it was just too stressful. Since then, like now we have a kid and it just feels like these times that we can get away, he works on Broadway, his schedule is wacky. So when we take a vacation, it is a vacation. And I’ve emailed clients and agents and I just say, “Hey, I’m going on vacation. And most of the time they either write back, “Oh my gosh, amazing, have so much fun.” Or they write back, “Oh, I love whatever, Disney World, we just went there. Here’s some recommendations I have.” Or they’ll say nothing. And then that’s it. But I think it’s encouraging to hear other voice talent kind of setting those boundaries as well and saying it’s okay, because I feel like as a solopreneur, we’re often, and especially as theater people too, I feel like it’s ingrained to just say yes to everything.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I’m pretty good at setting boundaries, but also wanting to serve when I can. So I go to Minnesota a lot. That’s where my family live. I have like this one studio that I go to mostly every summer, and we usually road trip there and literally I’m booking jobs on my phone and I’m like, “Okay, if I do all three of these, then I definitely justifies me getting a studio.” So I will book studio time for when I’m there for one afternoon, and my mom comes with, and she sits in the control room. Or one of my kids comes with because usually I’m recording from my home studio, so it’s not that exciting. But yeah, they’re like, “Ooh, mom’s going to a studio,” and they’ll sit in the control room. And then what I do is, if I have auditions that come in, I will then at the end of that session, I will record those auditions in the studio.

Stephanie: That’s so smart.

Jessica: I got a great job doing that. And I tend to book them because it seems like I book a higher percentage of those and I feel like it’s because I’m just at the tail end of a directed session. Like, you’re really dialed in. Yeah, so you just try and like, make the most of your time. And then sometimes if someone really wants an audition, I’ll just say, “I’m traveling. Are you okay with a phone audition?” And most times they say, yeah.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Jessica: You know, like, especially if it’s on a roster, they know I have a great studio. Or I’ll say if you’re worried about my sound quality, all of my demos were recorded in my studio, so if you listen to those, that’s representative of what my studio sound is like.

Stephanie: Oh, that’s really smart. How do you find all of your work besides, I know you said you like to be on rosters?

Jessica: Yeah, so I am on a good number of rosters. I have a hand, I had 5, 6, 7 agents, different sizes. Like some are really small, they may send me three things a year, and some are bigger. I definitely focus on agent auditions, but that’s not the bulk of what I’m booking. I’m on Voice 123, I am a platinum talent on Voice 123, and I book there regularly. I would say I book more directly than actually through auditioning. More just people messaging me saying, ‘We’ve got this project, you’re going to be perfect. You know, are you available?”

Stephanie: You’re a platinum member, do you come up higher in searches? Do you know,

Jessica: Oh yes. You’re paying for that. I don’t know that I’ll continue as platinum next year. I’m not sure because in a way I’m not the kind of talent who, where I am sitting in my studio, like from nine to five every day. Because again, this career is to support me being a pretty involved parent and doing things with my kids. So, I feel like the platinum is probably ideal for people who are literally sitting in their studio like ready for the next audition. So sometimes I feel like I’m paying more than I need to for things that I can’t even take advantage of.

Stephanie: Right.

Jessica: If I were one step down, I think I would still get them early enough. But I mean, I get these auditions and there are no submissions.

Stephanie: Interesting.

Jessica: I’m like, I am seeing them first. And also, I’m top 10% and you combine that with platinum, I mean, that is what I’m paying for. So I literally have, it’s like pick of the litter, but I’m not always here to take advantage of pick of the litter So, it might not make sense for me to keep paying for that, because I think if I stay 10% and I’m one tier down, paying probably half of what I’m paying now, I think I would still get them early enough that I can take advantage of it.

Stephanie: I’m in that whatever that next level down is. I don’t get as many direct messages. I think that is the difference from anyone that I’ve talked to that’s platinum, I feel like that’s a big difference. But you have to be accepted to the platinum membership, right, you can’t just pay for it?

Jessica: You do have to be accepted. And they look at your audition history and I think what percentage you are. I think they may even like, look at your website. There’s definitely more of a vetting process. I don’t think it’s just, you have 5K you can throw at us. I think it’s a little more involved in that. Because the funny thing is, when I decided to try for Platinum, I sent them an email and they’re like, “Yeah, we have a wait list.” And I was like, great, put me on the wait list. And then they emailed me like two weeks later and said, we have an opening. And I’ve heard all these things where people have been waiting for years. So then I’m thinking, well, maybe I shouldn’t drop it. But also I hate spending money on things that I’m not really capitalizing on. The direct invites that might be where I’m getting that value.

Stephanie: Yeah, I do find that I’m in the first group sometimes, but it depends. And it also depends on, like, for me, so I’m on the East coast and so sometimes I’ll get direct invites overnight and then I’ll wake up and I’ll be like, oh, I have like 15 auditions in my inbox, and they all have very low or no submissions, but by the time you get them, that might not be the case in that lower group.

Jessica: I could see that that would make a lot of sense. Being mountain time, I really should be like, get up at four o’clock.

Stephanie: That sounds terrible.

Jessica: I would never do that.

Stephanie: I’m not a morning person, so-

Jessica: I’m not really either. Unless I’m going to book a session, I’ll get up and do a session at seven because my kids will still be asleep. And I’m not like, before they’re going off to school, so sometimes it’s nice to get that done before it’s like kind of chaos in the house. So, sometimes it’s worth it to wake up really early and do those sessions, especially if it’s somewhere overseas. I really like working with overseas companies. I love it. I think just because I like to travel.

Stephanie: I think that’s probably a cool selling point for them to know that you like to travel.

Jessica: Yeah. And that I lived overseas for four years, so I kind of understand like their mentality. It’s different from Americans. They’re much more life first than Americans are. We’re like, work first, so I like that. I will say that the budgets aren’t as big. That doesn’t always bother me. Something that I book without having to audition for makes me really happy because auditioning is such a time sink, that booking something directly without all that back and forth is just like, you have a reasonable budget, let’s do it. Sure. I’m much more willing to say yes.

Stephanie: And what percentage of your work roundabout do you think comes from agent auditions like that you actually book?

Jessica: Actually, let me look it up. I have my voice overview thing.

Stephanie: Oh, nice. See, we have a spreadsheet on this podcast.

Jessica: Wow. Actually this year it is 1%. 1%. My client direct is 40%, my online casting is 15%, production company roster, 10%, self-marketing 24%.

Stephanie: Interesting.

Jessica: Whenever I come back and look at this, I’m always like, I know where I need to be spending my time.

Stephanie: And that’s so amazing. because I feel like every part of this career can become a time suck, whether it’s auditions or invoicing or direct marketing. And if you’re doing hours and hours of direct marketing, but that’s really only 1% of your business, then that isn’t a great way to spend your time.

Jessica: Yeah. I will say that the other thing that I see when I see that is that I need to be working on my reads more, more with commercial trends, which I’m starting to come back to because that should be higher. I think my overall booking rate is 7%, which isn’t terrible. It’s not amazing either. I don’t think I’m a great auditioner.

Stephanie: I would agree that I don’t think I’m a great auditioner either. I think once I get to the session and I have another human being, I think I would be a great auditioner. And I’ve proposed this before, maybe you’re the one who’s going to take me up on it, that we audition together, like voice actors pair up and audition together and give each other feedback and be the other person and be the director. Sometimes I audition with my husband. It hasn’t happened in a while, but sometimes he’ll, especially if I’m in a rut, he’ll be like, “All right, I’ll sit in.” And he doesn’t know. I mean, he knows a lot from being married to me for so long, but he’s not a casting director or anything, but sometimes I just feel like that, especially again, theater people like that human to human connection just fuels us in a different way than when you’re just standing in front of the script by yourself.

Jessica: Absolutely. Actually, I’ve been working through Tina Marasco’s library. It’s really good – especially for conversational. For me, again, the theater thing can really make me more presentational, so this whole peer-to-peer thing is kind of my blind spot, but she advocates for getting together and auditioning with someone else. And I actually had never thought of it. One thing I learned from Tom Pinto, he’s a fantastic coach, by the way. He’s amazing. He does this thing where he has a folder on the desktop of his computer called Winning Auditions. So I started doing that maybe four or five years ago, and I have every single one of my auditions that I’ve booked off of in a folder, and I can go back and listen to them. Like in retrospect, it’s really interesting. I think there was something about when I started that I sounded like I was not a voice talent, and I think that was what booked me that huge job. I mean, if I got that script today, there is no way I would’ve approached it in the same way.

Stephanie: Isn’t that funny?

Jessica: It’s almost like I’ve been indoctrinated into the voiceover sound, you know?

Stephanie: Yeah, I feel like it’s hard to break that. No matter how we try. It’s like it’s, we hear commercials all day, we’re told to watch commercials and learn and study your craft, and then when you do, you’re like, “Oh, this is the sound that they want. And so I’m going to give it to them in the audition.” And sometimes that can work against you.

Jessica: Oh, completely. Well, I will say, I’ve learned a lot in Tina’s library because she talks about how the read that books the job is very likely not the read you’re going to hear on TV, and that booking the job is a different mentality from doing the job, which is quite a riddle for us all to unpack.

Stephanie: Absolutely.

Jessica: It’s and that’s one casting director. She’s one casting director. So other casting directors may have a different feel about that – different advice. So lately I’ve been feeling like, do I need to know what casting director this is going to? Because they all have a different way of directing how to get to the read that they would want to hear in an audition, every single one of them. And they all have different advice.

Stephanie: I know. And I think if you’ve taken enough classes, you’ve got enough notes, it would be helpful. Some of my agents do tell me, and some don’t, and I don’t like when I don’t know. They’ll just say like, “here’s the audition.” And I’m like, “Oh, who’s it for? I need to know.”

Jessica: I mean, sometimes it’s obvious. Sound in Fury, obviously those are the formatting, and she goes in and explains the entire reason. It was really helpful too. And actually what’s funny is whenever I see a Sound in Fury audition, I’m always kind of like, “Okay, let’s give it a shot.” But do you want to know what that Nature Made job I booked – was a Sound in Fury audition. There’s something about like that fresh new like non voiceover person sound. I mean, just yesterday I had a live session, I auditioned and the audition sounded nothing like what we did in the session. And I was so confused.

Stephanie: You know, I was thinking back to when I asked you your percentages, and I realized that, those numbers are also just so in flux because if you book a national SAG job tomorrow through your agent, then those numbers are going to skyrocket the other way.

Jessica: Oh, they will. Yeah, so quickly, I’m looking at my top 10 clients. My first, my top client is an IVR roster I’m on, it’s my biggest client ever. Cumulatively, I’ve been with them for like six years. Second one is this company called Urgent Vet, and I got on with them when they were just starting to expand and they were looking for a voice for like one or two new locations. Now they have 50 locations. I voice all their phones and I just did two more social media commercials for them yesterday. And that was just a direct – and that’s why my client direct is like 40% of my business. It’s amazing.

Stephanie: And so with that being said, what do you do to maintain those repeat client relationships? Because as I’ve heard, many interviewees say that’s a huge part of their business and a huge part of the “guaranteed” as much as we can be guaranteed income over the year, is a repeat client basis.

Jessica: I would say for me it’s just giving them the best service and becoming friends with them. I genuinely like those people who run Urgent Vet, and it’s like this development of a relationship. It’s me, like they opened a new location. I was like, ‘When are you coming to Colorado?” And the director of marketing emailed me the locations for like the new telephone scripts. And I was like, “Oh my God, you have a location in Colorado now?” And she said, ‘Yeah, we’re going to be there for an open house coming up.” I went and I brought my puppy and introduced myself as the voice of Urgent Vet. And it’s doing things like they changed the main prompt on all their locations. And I just do that for free. Like, I just try to be helpful and deliver quickly, deliver good work and not like be a money grabber. I get paid very well by them, so I just want to be like, don’t worry, this one’s on me. Like, if I have clients who are coming back to me years, over years, like I’m not going to be just trying to get every red cent.

Stephanie: Yeah, I know [unclear40:02] talks about that too. She’s mentioned that a bunch of times when people have posted in Facebook groups about what their retake policies are and things like that. And she is always like, if it’s going to take me three seconds and they changed one tiny sentence or one tiny word, or I messed up something, then no charge. I think that speaks a lot to people who are working at that high level, like who have that six figure income or who are living in a place where they don’t have to nickel and dime for each little tiny thing. But yeah, I think it does create a nice rapport and I’m always pleasantly surprised when I am about to do something for free, but like thinking as I’m reading through the email, like, oh, okay, no problem, I’ll do that. And then they’re like, “We can offer you 50 bucks for this. Is that good?” And I’m like, “Yes. Great.” So, it works both ways. I think people appreciate your good work and so they are happy to pay you for your time. And then on the other hand, sometimes you can give them a freebie here and there.

Jessica: Yeah, I did that for production company roster I’m on. It was in December, and it was a pickup on a previous project, and at the end of the session I was just like, “You don’t have to pay me for this. Happy holidays.” And they were just like, “Oh my gosh!” They couldn’t believe it. During the holidays for bigger clients, I make a donation in their name. Like for Urgent Vet, this year I donated to the Humane Society.

Stephanie: Oh, I love that.

Jessica: And they were just like, they were so happy, like that that money went to something that was so in alignment with what they do. Or like production company I donate to the food bank in their neighborhood.

Stephanie: Oh, that’s awesome. That’s a great idea.

Jessica: Something that’s local to them, so it’s kind of like benefiting their community. So yeah, I think everything is about relationship. The most important thing to me is that the client is really happy with what they get. So like the last sentence when I’m sending someone a file, I attach my invoice, it’s a link to the, Wetransfer to download the wave. And then I say, if there’s anything here that isn’t sounding like what you were hoping to hear, just let me know. I know some talent really get into, I’ll do one reread for tone, and then it’s going to cost more. I’m here to deliver a product, like end of sentence. Like, if I can’t give you what you want, then I’m probably not the right person, but I’m going to try.

Stephanie: I think that’s a, again, like such an open collaborative way to communicate with the client instead of being like, “Well, here are my files. If you need something else, you’ll be charged.”

Jessica: Yeah. I just don’t want it to feel like this is the end. I’m done. I’m not doing anything else. Here’s your file. Because if they’re not happy, it’s just like, you know, I’m a picky consumer myself. I’m picky. Like things cost a lot of money these days, and if I get something and I don’t feel like I really got what was promised me, I’m going to complain. It’s an expensive time that we’re living in, so people should get what they’re needing and get what they’re paying for.

Stephanie: Well, this has been such an awesome conversation. I’m curious if you have like one last piece of advice for the voice actor who might be listening thinking like, oh, I’m not at six figures yet, but I’m hoping to get there in the future.

Jessica: I see this myself, you know, people look at other people who they deem to be a success, and I think sometimes there’s this expectation that that was easy. Nobody sees the work that goes into creating. They just see, oh, so and so is nominated for an award. Oh, so-and-so is the name of this. They don’t see all the coaching sessions, all the time obsessing over audio quality, all the marketing and developing relationships with people literally over years. It’s just that it has to be a long-term focus. And I know my story is not the typical, and so sometimes I don’t like to share it because I don’t want it to sound like you’re going to make a $40,000 in your first month of doing voiceover. Like, it was a really unusual circumstance. That is not typical. And I’ve had plenty of down times that have made me go, “Oh wow, that really wasn’t typical.”

It’s just such a rollercoaster. You can go so far down and then you can come so far up and I think you just have to stay on the ride. So if I could distill this, I actually wrote this down. There are days where I am so tempted to do every single audition I can, every single agent audition, every single voice, 1, 2, 3, everything that I get emailed from a production company. And there are some times where I just know that the best thing I could do that day is simply respond to people, chat with people on LinkedIn who I already have relationships with, find new companies to send an email to or to get in touch with or send a letter. I like to send letters. Send a letter to, or a postcard, or to write a thank you note or to send a gift card for coffee. And that, I think is a longer term focus. It’s like I’m planting a garden because one audition is one job, but a relationship is many jobs. So having that longer term focus, it’s like really planting seeds and getting to know people.

Stephanie: I love that. I think that’s such a perfect note to end on. Thank you so much for doing this. I really, really appreciate it and hearing hearing your story.

Jessica: Thanks Stephanie. This was fun. I love talking about voiceover. Geez.

Stephanie: As a mom myself, I love Jessica’s perspective on family time and how she uses her career to support being an involved parent. Even if you’re not a parent, I think this applies to partners, other family members, even your own hobbies outside of voiceover. I also love the way she spoke about how the business and the desired sound has changed over the years, which I know I definitely can relate to as someone who’s been doing this around the same amount of time as Jessica has. If you’d like to learn more about Jessica, I’m linking her website and socials in the show notes, which you can find at my website, makingittothemic.com. Thanks so much for listening, and here’s a little preview of the next episode.

Intro: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Mike Lenz VO podcast. My name is Mike Lenz. I’m an entrepreneur and a full-time professional voice actor and audiobook narrator. My goal is to share with you stories from some of the most amazing and inspiring people from all areas of the voiceover industry, to help you achieve your dream of becoming a professional voice actor. So please leave me a review over on iTunes and join us over on the web at mikelenzvopodcast.com to be notified of each episode when it comes out. Now, get ready to be inspired.

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Mike Lenz VO podcast. A quick shout out to my newest podcast patron, Dustin Craven. Part of Dustin’s membership award is that today’s episode is a Dustin Craven and Mike Lenz voice production. If you want to find out how you can be part of my Patreon community, head over to patreon.com/mikelenz and check out the different membership tiers, that includes amongst other things, a half-hour or a one-hour Zoom call with me based on your membership level. And also based on your membership level, you will get mentioned on a podcast and you might even be a co-producer, which is pretty cool. In addition, becoming a member will give you access to Patron-only posts. I just did a video recently showing the behind-the-scenes of how I keep track of my narration billable hours each week. Another showing how I organize my audiobook recording schedule with spreadsheets and my coding system, and some behind-the-scenes photos of my new studio remodel, and only my patrons get to see it.

And when I reach my patron goal, I’ll be recording special podcast episodes where I’ll be interviewing my Patreon members. So head over to patreon.com/mikelenz and check out the different membership levels starting as low as $5 per month to support this podcast and get access to exclusive content. Now, today’s episode is sponsored by Voice Sam and the Audition Ready Online course. Head over to mikelenzvopodcast.com and click on the Voice Zam sponsor link to receive a 30-day free trial of Voice Zam. That’s twice as long as the usual 15-day free trial period, so take advantage of that. I love Voice Zam and I use it on my website. It’s a fantastic marketing tool in addition to being a great demo player, so check it out for free. Also click on the Audition Ready Online course link and enter promo code ML20 to receive 20% off Tim Tippets Audition Ready online course. That’s a savings of close to a hundred bucks. Tim is amazingly gifted at cutting through the complicated tech side of VO, and he makes it easy to understand. He has helped me tremendously in my career, and I know he can help you too.

Alright, so check out both offers over at mikelenzvopodcast.com. And don’t forget to sign up for my e-newsletter over at mikelenzvoice.com. Just go to the bottom of the homepage and sign up for updates on my journey and the interesting things I’m learning along the way. And finally, if you haven’t already, head over to Facebook and join the Mike Lenz VO podcast Facebook group. That’s where you can ask specific questions about each episode and interact with me and other members of the group. If there’s something we didn’t cover in this episode, you can let me know in the Facebook group and I can get you an answer, or at least I’ll try. All right, on today’s episode, my guest is Jessica Taylor. Jessica can be heard on television, on the web and on the radio for projects large and small. She often books projects that ask for vocal qualities and deliveries, similar to the sounds of celebrities like Kristen Bell, Rashida Jones, Tina Faye, Anna Kendrick, Scarlet Johansen, Emma Stone, and Jennifer Lawrence. It’s quite a list. Jessica’s clients include IBM, Coors, Brookstone, Amazon, Spotify, Lincoln, and New York Life to name just a few. Jessica, welcome to the podcast.

Jessica: Thanks, Mike. This is so exciting. It’s great to be here.

Mike: I know, I’m so glad we got to connect. We talk on social media. We’ve been talking about chickens and all that fun stuff, about our life outside of VO. I’m so glad that we got a chance to connect and get you on the podcast. So welcome. So let’s start by having you share with our listeners about your journey into VO. How did this all start? How did you get where you are today?

Jessica: Where am I today? I don’t know. I’m having a moment of, like, “Am I being interviewed on a podcast?” What have I accomplished? I mean, I’ve accomplished a lot. I guess I’m a full-time voice actor, and I did it, like I basically started out full-time, which is kind of crazy to say. I got started really in 2017. And what is so funny, and one of the reasons I wanted to be on your podcast was because I wanted to share this with you. That this is like the biggest full circle moment for me, because when I got started  – I live in Boulder and I know I have to mention the terrible tragedy we had here last week. It’s been really a pivotal time in our small – Boulder’s a really small place. So anyway, I felt like I needed to say something; to acknowledge the fact that that happened as I tell you that I live in Boulder. So as I would drive from Boulder down to Denver to start taking voiceover classes, I listened to your podcast religiously, it’s like an hour drive each way. And I listened to every single one, and then I started listening to them over and over again, because I was like, there aren’t enough. So, and now to actually be talking with you, it’s so much fun. It’s so cool that it’s like full circle.

Mike: That is awesome.

Jessica: So I hope that’s cool for you too.

Mike: My, gosh! Yeah.

Jessica: It’s like major inspiration for me listening to all the talent and learning and just like, you know, having that time to myself. I have three boys. So having that time to myself to like just selfishly listen and study and think about voiceover it was so decadent. So I have a great association with you.

Mike: That’s great. And I imagine that it must be really, and I want to hear about your journey, but I think it’s nice when you’re in that position where, like, I’ve had to travel back and forth to New York City sometimes for different work that I’ve done. And when I get on the train, I feel this sense of relaxation where I’m like, I can just read a book or listen to a podcast because there’s nothing else that I can possibly do. And it’s not that we don’t love our children, we don’t love our families, we don’t love our lives, but sometimes it’s nice to be someplace where you just don’t have to do anything.

Jessica: Completely. And I chose you during that time, Mike.

Mike: You know what? That is even more special. I love that. So, tell us about your journey.

Jessica: Well, oh, this story feels so convoluted to me to tell. So just reign me in if I start rambling and I want to try and keep it succinct. But it all started at birth

Mike: Oh God. Alright, let me reign you in.

Jessica: Yeah, pull me in there. So in middle school, I started doing lots of theater, theater singing, mostly musical theater choir, band, everything and anything creative. That developed into a love of speech. Mostly doing theater in high school, like, you know, to the point where one of my jokes is that I never took chemistry, and all my friends would be like, “Why aren’t you taking chemistry?” I was like, I don’t know. I read the book and apparently I don’t have to take it. It doesn’t say, “You have to take chemistry to graduate.” And I was like, and that means I can take another acting class. So I don’t know anything about chemistry. And then in my senior year of high school, I flunked. It’s the only class I ever failed. I failed physics because I was Eliza in my Fair Lady. I mean.

Mike: There you go.

Jessica: Physics had no relevance to me.

Mike: None whatsoever. None. I can imagine.

Jessica: So, didn’t take chemistry, failed physics, the only class ever failed. And then I wanted to get a BFA in acting after high school. So I auditioned for all kinds of top shelf programs and was accepted at great schools. But unfortunately at the time my parents were getting divorced and these schools were so expensive and there just wasn’t the money for me to do that basically. So I kind of let that piece go and I was like, “That’s okay. I’m still going to pursue theater”. I went to massage school because I wanted to be able to earn good money in a short amount of time so that I could, you know, spend time auditioning and rehearsing and performing. So I did that, met a guy, a boyfriend at the time. He was a chiropractor. I was a massage therapist. We made a great duo, actually and from Minnesota, that’s where I grew up. We moved down to Denver. That was when I came to Colorado in ’98. And I immediately started doing theater. And I have some kind of funny claims to fame. One is that, well, in high school I was in theater with Maria Thayer, who is now I would say famous actress. She was on Strangers with Candy. She’s been on lots of late night comedy shows. She’s kind of like an improv sketch artist. And so that’s one of them. And then when I moved to Colorado, I played Amy in a musical adaptation of Little Women. And I played post-p[ubescent Amy and pre-pubescent Amy was played by Annaleigh Swanson, who is now known as Annaleigh Ashford, who is the Tony Award-winning actress in Sunday in the Park with George.

So she was like 11 years old at the time. And she and I both together played the role of Amy in Little Women, the musical. That’s kind of a fun, fun story. Whoops, sorry, I just touched the thing there. Continued with theater. I ended up being cast the Denver Center for the Performing Arts, like the only person who had ever been cast locally who wasn’t cast out of New York and LA. So I was an understudy in Much Ado about nothing. And that’s kind of where I started to meet different people in the theater community, like more regional talent, talent who were coming in from the coasts. And I started paying attention to the classes everybody was taking. And there was a voiceover class and I was like, what in the world is voiceover? So I took the class and I remember getting a piece of copy and it was four words. And I had my Walkman, that’s how we recorded our takes, everybody. We were like, you know, in a big room all at tables and everybody had their Walkman and someone would pass out the copy and four words. And I was just like, what? I had no idea what to do. I mean, it’s such a different skill from being on stage.

Mike: Isn’t it crazy how, how unique it is?

Jessica: It’s such a unique skillset and there’s really nothing that translated from, you know, doing Shakespeare on stage to four words about a car. I was dumbfounded. So at that point, I really didn’t continue with voiceover because I was kind of like, I don’t really get it. But I was intrigued also. I was like, this is a really different kind of challenge acting wise. So I continued doing theater and then I ended up opening a spa from my massage work. So I was really, and I’ve always been a very strong entrepreneur and my massage business had really taken off. So I decided that I wanted to hire employees to work for me and I had a training center in Denver where I taught massage therapists from around the country how to give massage with their feet.

I actually trained one of Willie Nelson’s daughters how to give massage with her feet. And I have one of her CDs because she’s of course a musician. So I took that business for about 10 years. And I had really managed myself out of it to the point where I was home with my kids, which was my goal ultimately, was that I wanted to have a business that was kind of running itself while I would be able to be home with my kids and I could manage it, you know, virtually. So I had gotten the business to that point, but then September, 2008 happened. And I’ll just say massage was essentially the first thing to go from everybody’s budget. So I took it as a sign, it was a really tough time actually.

It was really sad. I mean, I had worked really hard at this business and this is going to tie into voiceover, so just hang on. So I decided to close it at that point and stay home with my kids, which I did for 10 years. During that time we moved overseas. We lived in Prague for four years. And then in 2016 we came back to Colorado. And we moved to Boulder. And I knew that it was time. My youngest was turning six and I was like, he’s going to be in school or in more programs coming up. And I knew that I was like on the threshold of what’s next for me personally and professionally. Because I was really excited. I love being home with my kids and I’m really thankful for that time that I had with them.

But I was also like really itching to do something creative again. So I had these criteria. I was like, whatever I do, it has to be creative. I need to have my own business again. It needs to be entrepreneurial because I absolutely loved the marketing behind having my own business. And I had gained so many skills from having my own business for those years. And I also wanted to be able to make some really solid money in a short amount of time; that’s been a theme in my life too. Like, how can I maximize my earnings in a short amount of time so that what I do supports the lifestyle I want to live, rather than my job being the lifestyle, you know, and then fitting my life in around what’s left. So it was kind of a tall order, I guess.

And I mentioned it to my mom and she said, you know, a friend of my boyfriend, she’s an audiobook narrator. And I was like, “Oh, that’s interesting.” She goes, “Do you want to meet her when you come up here this summer?” I was like, “Sure.” So I went and met with her, and I have to say this woman, she set me up just in her generosity. And it was like my first taste of the generosity in voiceover, like, I was so overwhelmed. She had prepared a document for me. All of the, “Don’t go to any of these companies, avoid all of these demo producers. If you find this program, ignore it”. You know, it was like, I feel like I got so lucky to have been started out on the right foot immediately.

And she kind of gave me a picture of what her day was like. And, you know, oh, I come in the morning and I go through my emails and there will be auditions and some I’ll want to do, then I’ll have some jobs that I’ll do. I’ll record the jobs then I’ll do some marketing. And it was like bells and whistles in my head. I was like, “Oh my God, this is perfect.” Yeah. Ding, ding, ding, ding. And at the time, I didn’t really realize the income potential of voiceover. I had kind of ignored that part of my, you know, three-pronged plan because everything else was so great. I was like, this is like a little creative outlet I could have in the house. You know, like, I can come up and record some auditions, then I can go downstairs and do laundry and do some schoolwork with my kids.

And it was just like, I was so taken away with the whole thought. So I came back to Colorado after that trip and I went Gung-ho, like I immediately contacted Tia Marlier. Do you know Tia?

Mike: I don’t know. I don’t think so.

Jessica: She had been a massage client of mine while I had my business, and I met her on a corporate shoot on an on-camera shoot. And so I had known her for like 15 years. And I knew that she had done voiceover, and she would listen to my voicemail messages for my massage company. And I remember during that time, she would say to me, Jessica, whenever you’re ready to get started in voiceover, you just let me know.

And I was like, I would just kind of giggle at her. I’d be like, it’s just a voicemail, Tia, it’s, it’s nothing. She was like, so I get back home and I thought, oh my gosh, I have to contact Tia. I sent her an email and she said, well, so funny, you should be in touch with me because I’m actually an agent at Go Voices now. And I was like, “Oh, really? So I said to her, well, great, I just want to start coaching. I want to start coaching with you. And I just want to coach a couple times a week and we’re just going to do it, and you just tell me when I’m ready for a demo. And that was my only expectation. I just want to get better. I want to see what it’s all about. I want to get familiar with the different genres and see where you think I might fit.”

So we coach for about six weeks, and she’s like, I think you’re ready for a demo. And I was like, okay, great. I mean, I really trusted Tia. She’s a fantastic person for anybody to get in touch with, who’s getting started in voiceover. She’s kind and gentle but also really, you know, picky in a great way, gives great direction. She’s been a talent, she’s been an agent. Her website is vopeptalk.com and I adore Tia. So she basically helped me produce a demo here in Boulder, and I had never recorded a job. I recorded a commercial demo and a corporate narration demo, and I sent them to Go Voices. And actually during this time, Tia then moved on from Go Voices because she actually… there was nothing wrong. She just decided that being an agent wasn’t for her.

It was you know, voiceover talent tend to, we tend to enjoy our flexibility. And so she was having a hard time with nine to five. So she stepped aside and went back to being a talent and coaching exclusively because she discovered that was the part that she really liked the most about being an agent, was giving feedback and helping people improve. So I submitted my demos to Go Voices. They asked for an audition and they signed me. I had not booked a job yet. I hadn’t done a job professionally, so I was just like, it just kind of felt like, you know, an avalanche coming down the mountain. You know, like it was just, everything was just happening and I just felt like I was doing the right thing at the right time for me. And just like, it was just meant to be, you know, like, I don’t like to take credit, like, “Oh, I’m amazing.” I just think that it was more like something that had just been brewing, like in the background in my life for a long time. Like, all of the things that I had done kind of culminated in this field, and it was just so perfect for who I am and where my strengths are.

Mike: Well, and you would think about what you had gone through early in your life and in your adult life. You know, you were performing, you were acting, you were learning that creative side of it, and then you got that whole business side of it, which I talked to people a lot on this podcast and, you know, having run a brick and mortar business for almost 30 years, having that background is so important when you start to go through the process of beginning your own small business or a different small business. So Yeah, I mean, when you’re telling me that story, that’s exactly what I was thinking to myself, man, Jessica had this beautiful combination of the creative side honing that skill and then combining it with understanding how to run a business. And you put those two together and it’s like, boom!

Jessica: I know, sometimes I feel regret because I didn’t discover this, I didn’t continue it when I was in my early twenties. You know, it’s like, where could my career be now? What did I miss out on? But I also realize that if I had not started and run that business, I would never have been able to do this the way I have in this short amount of time because the business background is so important.

Mike: It’s critical.

Jessica: It’s equally important as the talent and the skill and everything else. So when that happened, when I signed with Go Voices, then I started getting auditions and I would look at the pay and I was like, “Oh my God.” And you can also make a lot of money in a short amount of time. Like, I had just kind of forgotten the money thing because I just loved it so much. I was like, kind of like, geez, I love this. It’s okay if it’s not like, you know, this big money maker. Well, it actually turned out to be.

Mike: You see those usage fees, and you’re like, whoa!

Jessica: And the second job I booked with Go Voices was a three year national campaign with Nature Made.

Mike: Wow!

Jessica: Big money and I told my husband about it. Now, I stayed home for 10 years. So my, my husband, he’s an IT professional, he does very well for us. But this day I went into his office and I had booked the job, and I was in tears. I couldn’t believe it. And I just said, I need to go record tomorrow. And he’s like, “Oh, I’ve got meetings, I’ve got, I’ve got this client thing coming up, you know, I’m supposed to leave on a trip the day after”. And I said, Brent, I’m going to make $40,000 tomorrow. And he looked at me and he goes, “Okay, I’ll work it out.”

Mike: Let me move a few things around.

Jessica: He’s like, “Okay, well, allright, no problem. Let me see what I can do.” So it was such a pivotal moment, like for having been someone who had stayed home for 10 years and really relied on my husband’s income to like have this moment of like, yeah, someone wants me to work for them for about four hours for $40,000. It was just like you know, a different level of like self-gratification. It felt really good.

Mike: Yeah. I mean, the door opens up and you’re like, “Oh my gosh.” And, you know, and I certainly, you’re not saying that voice actors make $40,000 a day, but that was an amazing eye-opening experience for you to say, wait a minute, this could be something big. I’ve got it. And when you look at things like that, like a national campaign, you understand the competition that you were up against.

Jessica: Well, you want to know what’s interesting is that I didn’t understand the competition I was up against because I didn’t know the industry that well. I didn’t know it until I talked to Tia about it. And she said, do you realize that went out to every… I think it was cast by Sound and Fury. She said that they probably listened to at least a thousand auditions. And I think, you know, now I get those auditions and it’s kind of dumb because I a little bit roll my eyes like, “Oh, okay, I’ll try.” But then I say to myself, hold on, you booked one of these ones, you know? But now I understand that competition. Before, I really didn’t, you know what I mean? It was kind of like, it was just ignorance was bliss.

Mike: Yeah. And it probably helped, it was to your advantage in the sense that if you knew it was a $40,000 job, you might’ve gotten so nervous in your audition that you might not have gotten it. Who knows? You were just going in there and you were going for it because you didn’t know any different.

Jessica: What’s interesting is I go back and if I re-listen to that audition, which, here’s a great tip from Tom Pinto that I adopted. Any winning audition, any audition that booked me a job, I keep a folder on the desktop of my computer and I put it in there. So I have a folder of all of my auditions that have booked me jobs. And it’s great to listen to those sometimes when, you know, you haven’t booked something in a while. But I go back and listen to that audition, and when I listen to it, there’s a quality in it that I hear that I think I understand when I hear from creatives when they say, we want someone who doesn’t sound like a voiceover artist because I hadn’t had a ton of coaching yet and the direction was like enthusiastic, over the top, full of life. And if I had gotten that same audition today, I’m fairly sure I would approach it completely differently. You know, it would sound different today.

Mike: Well you approached it as somebody who really, for all intents and purposes, wasn’t a voice actor at the time. You hadn’t booked anything yet. You had been doing the coaching, you were preparing yourself. But you were coming at it from the perspective of the every person who, who wasn’t the VO that’s cranking out, you know, 20 auditions a day, because that wasn’t you at that time.

Jessica: No, it wasn’t yet. No, not yet.

Mike: So you were was it called? Tabula Rosa.

Jessica: I don’t know what that means.

Jessica: The blank slate. It’s Latin for…

Jessica: The blank slate, I like that.

Mike: The blank slate. You’re just open to anything. You just went in and just did it.

Jessica: I mean, so I went in and recorded that job the next day, and I learned everything on the job that day. I’ll just put it that way, because I had only done one small studio job before that. So this was like my second in-studio job. The first one was a short 30 second commercial. This one was like a whole day, you know, four or five hour session. Because we were recording 20 some pre-roll spots, so it was a big day. But I remember the creative guy going, okay, let’s do an ABC on that. And in my mind I was like, “Yep, don’t know what an ABC is.” I didn’t say that, I was like, it must mean I do it three times.

Mike: Well, you did it, you figured it out.

Jessica: I figured it out. I mean, but the feedback I got was fantastic. You know, they had me coming back and rerecording, I mean, we added like four or five more spots over the next year. So everything went well. They kept using me. But it was intense on the job training that day. I’ll put it that way.

Mike: That’s pretty impressive that you figured it out. I love that Christian Lanz has a story where he was doing an on-camera audition, he’d never done one before, and he walked in, the guy’s like, “Have you checked your sides?” And he was like, he actually literally went to feel his ribs, thought there was something wrong with his ribs. And he’s like, “Yeah, I’m good. And they’re like, okay.”

Jessica: They are good. Thanks for checking.

Mike: My sides are good. You figured it out. That’s the main thing. That’s awesome. Hey, listen, I’m going to take a very, very quick break. I want to get back we’re going to talk about some other things that have been going on in your life, in the VO world and also just in life in general. But we’re going to take a quick break for a word from our sponsors and we’ll be right back in just about two minutes.

Commercial Break: Hey everybody, I just want to talk a little bit about the sponsors of this podcast. The first one is Voice Zam. My friend Bob Merkel has a great product. You guys know, if you’ve listened to this podcast, I’ve been promoting it for a while because it works fantastic. It not only is a web-based demo player where you can stack your demos so that when you’re sending them out to clients or people come to your website, they can easily click through and listen to your demos.

They don’t have to scroll through an mp3, they can actually see them stacked on top of each other. Great feature. And also you can use it as a marketing tool. And there’s so many different ways that you can use it, and I use it all the time. So go over to voicesam.com and schedule a conversation with Bob Merkel. And also, if you go to the Mike Lenz VO podcast website, about halfway down the homepage, you’ll go to the sponsors and you can click on that link and you’ll get a 30 day free trial. Now, regularly, it’s a 15 day free trial, but if you click on the Mike Lenz special deal, you’re going to get an additional 15 days for free. All right, so check that out over at voiceam.com. Also want to talk about my friend Tim Tippets and his audition Ready Audio course.

You can go over to his website at votechguru.com, or go to the link on my website at the mikelenzvopodcast.com, and you can go down to the sponsor link, click on that, and type in ML20. You’ll get 20% off of Tim’s course. That’s, I believe, almost a $100 savings. So you’re going to want to check that out. A fantastic course that teaches you about the technical side of what we do, which is equally important as the creative and talent side. So, check that out as well. So again, I want to thank my sponsors, the VO Tech Guru and the Audition Radio audio course, as well as my friend Bob Merkel over at voicezam.com. All right, thank you so much. We’ll get back to the show now.

Mike: Okay, everybody, welcome back. I am here with Jessica Taylor, and Jessica’s been sharing with us her journey into the VO world and really cool, her nice blending of the creative side and the business side, and then getting the training, really trying to understand the industry, and then some really amazing early success in your career to get started. But I’m sure there must have been and have been over the course of your career, some, some obstacles, some hurdles that you’ve had to overcome. What were some of those things, and more importantly, what are some of the lessons that you learned from them?

Jessica: Okay, well, you know, it’s tough starting out at such a high level, I’ll just say that. Because, typically, a career kind of builds to something like that instead of starting out with something like that. So, there was a period where I was excited to record a voicemail for a hundred dollars. You know what I mean? Like, talk about extremes, from one extreme to the other. Because I’ve had people ask me, “How much do you make doing voiceover?” I’m like, “Well, that’s a really…” I was like, “Well, one day I made…”

 Mike: What month is it?

 Jessica: I said, “Well, yesterday I did a voicemail for a hundred dollars”. You know what I mean?

 Mike: I do.

Jessica: Like an office. I think it’s the swings are a serious obstacle, you know? And I’ve said to myself during that time, like, “Oh, geez, did I just get lucky?” Am I really good at this? Or did I just kind of win the lottery? So that took a while, and it just took time for me to see myself booking a more work, getting other big campaigns, and going, “Okay, I am good at this. There’s a sound that people want from me that I clearly fit.” But yeah, that those swings were kind of – they just like really shake your confidence.

Mike: That’s interesting because I never would’ve thought of that perspective, but that’s such a cool perspective because yeah, you had early success. I mean, really, you know, significant success because that’s a big number for anybody at any level in their career to land a gig like that. So, to get that right out of the box, I guess that can kind of mess with your mind a little bit because you’re like, “Okay, hmm, this next job wasn’t $40,000. What’s up with that?”

Jessica: Right. And typically most are somewhere in between. So, the a hundred is just crazy extremes, a voiceover. But it’s also one of the things I love about voiceover. I love the variety. I love, and to me, I didn’t work any less hard on that voicemail for a hundred dollars. It didn’t mean any less to me. Like I still wanted to do my best job. And I think that’s part of how voiceover, you know, people who love it, it’s because you just love doing the work.

Mike: Well, that’s the performance piece, right?

Jessica: Yeah.

Mike: That’s the actor in us, the creative in us. And I’ve had situations where I’ve done audio books, where it was a book that maybe wasn’t for a big publisher, or it was a shorter book. And you have to remember, and PJ Oakland had a great comment; his piece of advice last month was, “Commit, don’t comment.” He’s like, you know, once you agree to do a project, you have to commit to doing it to the best of your ability. And in the audio book world, sometimes you’ll get books that you’re like, I’m not really excited about this book, but you have to commit to it. And I think that’s true because as artists, we want to commit and you’ll go back and you’ll kind of get feedback saying, “Okay, the author,” or they want you to do it a little bit differently or wanted to put a little bit more emotion in this scene.

And then you go back and listen and go, “You know what, I didn’t do that as good as I could.” And then you go back and you do it better and you hear it and you’re like, “Ooh, yeah, that’s it. That’s the read. That’s the one I was supposed to do.” And it does take effort when we do this all the time, every day to make sure that we are really bringing our best performance to the work that we do. It’s draining. It can be draining for sure.

Jessica: Yeah. I think having those wild swings early on, because then I kind of went right to, you know, where most beginners start; booking work, but going, “Geez, I mean, how many auditions have I done since I booked something?” And it’s that black hole of not hearing anything, either from an audition or from marketing touches with people. And that gets really just, ugh, it just feels so heavy, like in that beginning time when you’re just, just getting no feedback of any kind on a regular basis. Nothing to kind of construct how you feel about the work you’re doing or knowing where you’re at or if you’re progressing. And actually, one of the things that helped me with that was getting a CRM, because just seeing that a person I’ve reached out to has opened an email a couple, two, three times, even though they don’t respond to me, was the greatest form of feedback. And kind of gave me a little bit of a motivation to, “Okay, people are – they’re seeing when I reach out to them, they’re reading the email. Oh, they’re looking at it again.” You know what I mean? So even though they’re not responding, I know I have their attention. 

Mike: Yeah, mentally, you know, it’s not just going into a black hole where like, what? Anything! Anybody!

Jessica: Is anything happening?  

Mike: Anybody listening to me? Yeah, you can actually track it. It’s all about control, right? It gives you some control over your career, control over your marketing efforts, so you can at least see something on a screen that tells you, okay, this is working, this isn’t working, at least I’m making contact with this person. And we never know. I just literally got done doing an audiobook called I’ll Get Back to You. And how we as human beings are designed instinctively to need to close loops. We don’t like unclosed loops because that’s a survival instinct for us. So when you send a text to somebody and they don’t text you back, then your brain has to close that loop. And oftentimes we will close the loop with the very worst case scenario.

Jessica: Yes.

Mike: My son or daughter didn’t text me back, oh my gosh, the train crashed and they didn’t get back to New York City. We close the loop with the worst case scenario. So if we send an email off or an audition or reach out, do some marketing and get no response, then we instantly go to the worst case scenario. They hate me, they’ll never hire me, I’ll never get another job again. It’s just human nature.

Jessica: That’s interesting. So that’s been helpful. CRM, it’s great. Right now I’m really working on consistency and it’s really happened. COVID ironically was kind of great for my career, mostly because I wasn’t driving kids all over the place, so my availability skyrocketed. Like, are you available? Of course I am. What else would I be doing? I’m home.

Mike: Whenever you want me. 

Jessica: Whenever you want me. Yeah, I discovered early morning sessions are my favorite because my kids are still sleeping.

Mike: That’s when I do all my recording in the morning. The bulk of my recording is done between eight to 10 in the morning because everybody’s asleep.

Jessica: Yeah. I recorded – I had a session this morning at 8:00 AM, I was recording a tag on a national commercial. It took 20 minutes and I was like, you know, you guys sleep, I’ll be, you know?

Mike: I’ll take care of it.

Jessica: It’s great. It’s great.

Mike: I love it. I love it. So let’s talk about something outside of VO that we both have in common.  

Jessica: Yeah.

Mike: I think this is really cool. Do you want to say it or do I want you want me to say it?

Jessica: The yard jewelry.

Mike: They are cute, but not very intelligent chickens.

Jessica: Yes. Oh, those sweet girls.

Mike: Isn’t it amazing? So yeah, Jessica and I both own chickens. And that’s kind of how I think we even first started communicating on social media, was commenting on some pictures of chickens or eggs.

Jessica: Pretty girls, yeah.

Mike: Yeah. So that’s kind of a – I mean, I know for me it’s a nice hobby to have. It’s definitely a nice diversion and it’s definitely nice to get these beautiful golden eggs. So what led you guys to get chickens? Was this your decision, your husband, the children’s, all the above? How’d you guys make that decision?

Jessica: Oh, it wasn’t my husband’s, I’ll just put it that way.  

Mike: Okay.

Jessica: Oh, no.

Mike: No?

Jessica: No, he doesn’t like things with wings, but he does like their eggs, so that’s good. But my kids, we lived in Prague and it was very common for people to have chickens there. It’s like – I don’t even know what to relate it to, but it’s just something people do there. It’s like part of life. It’s like, well yeah, you want eggs, you need to have some chickens. So when we came back home I was like, yeah, we got to do that. We got to do that. And my husband went on a trip, business trip and he came home and we had four pullets in the house.

Mike: Love it. 

Jessica: We had talked about it briefly, so he knew it might be coming, but he was a little surprised. We didn’t even have a coop. I just went and got the – because they had to be in the house for –

Mike: Sure. Like five weeks I think.

Jessica: Yeah, six to eight weeks. So I was like, you know what, and this is sometimes how I roll. I like to get myself in a situation first and then I figure everything else out. So I bought the girls and then I was like, okay, guess we should get a coop. So I kind of reverse engineer sometimes.

Mike: Perfect. I love it. Well, my wife said to me – I remember I talked about chickens for a year before we got them. And she’s like, “Look, you can get chickens but you and the kids are going to take care of them. I’m not going to have anything to do with it.” So I’m like, fine. And then about a month ago, my wife said, “So I think we should get four more chickens,” so we’re going to have eight in about a month now.

Jessica: Oh my gosh.

Mike: Four to eight. So she has definitely come around to the whole chicken idea because she likes the eggs.

Jessica: Oh, they’re great. So the first time we got pullets, and then we got two more right when the shutdown started. It was the very end of March we got two, two day old chicks. And we did not know this shutdown was coming. It was just school was kind of closed and we didn’t really know what was happening. But it turned out to be the most fantastic, like, serendipitous thing we could have purchased.

Mike: Oh yeah. Something to turn the focus on during the whole shutdown.

Jessica: So we had these adorable little chicks in the house and even though the world was scary and unsure, we just had these adorable chicks and they’re great. So they just turned a year old. My first Buff Orpington, and she never stopped laying all winter. She’s the only chicken I’ve had who hasn’t stopped laying in the winter.

Mike: Yeah, you told me that. I think you told me that on social media. And I remember that we have three new girls and one older girl, and the three girls laid all the way through the winter as well. Which is amazing because you’re in Colorado, I’m an upstate New York; chickens kind of usually tip it down.

Jessica: You would think I have even more daylight.

Mike: Yeah, but I was very pleasantly surprised. They didn’t produce as much as they’re producing now, but they didn’t stop ever all the way through the winter. And those of you that are listening, because this is really important VO knowledge for you to understand, is that chickens in the wintertime will stop laying often because they’re using all the protein that they would normally use to make eggs to stay warm, number one. Number two, they don’t have enough sunlight. The sunlight triggers the hormone that causes them to lay the eggs. So that’s your chicken lesson for today, all my listeners. So typically you’re not going to get a lot of eggs in the winter, but because the girls are a little younger, because our girls are similar in age, they’re a little more prolific in their laying capabilities, so I think that was probably the reason why, but that’s great.

Jessica: Well, I don’t know.

Mike: And now they cranking.

Jessica: Oh my gosh. This is the golden time. This is the time when it’s so amazing to have them and to be outside gardening and they’re running around after you and you’re digging in the dirt and you know, they’re pecking all the worms and it’s so much fun. And the grass is green and you sit out and eat, eat dinner outside and they’re walking around so pretty and –

Mike: It’s really wonderful. It’s the gateway drug to owning backyard animals. But they’re the best pet in the world because they don’t take that… they’re very easy to take care of and they give you food. What other pet gives you food that’s actually edible?

Jessica: I know. Our eggs are glorious.

Mike: We love it. We love it. That’s awesome. So listen, we’re coming up on the end of our time together, Jessica.

Jessica: Alrighty.

Mike: Yeah. Yep. It’s coming up really fast.

Jessica: Okay, thanks.

Mike: So before we wrap up, what do you think if you were hanging out with an aspiring voice actor and you had to give them just one single piece of advice, what do you think that would be?

Jessica: Well, you know, when I tell people my voiceover story, if they’re interested in voiceover, sometimes I don’t like telling it because I don’t want it to sound discouraging, like that I had this crazy success right away, because it’s not usual. And what that brings me to in terms of the single piece of advice is don’t compare your journey to somebody else’s because they are all so different. And that is something that I’ve struggled with too. You know, it’s interesting you talk about Christian Lanz because I read a post of his the other day. And he’s talking about how he has a career that he developed completely only from agents and managers. He’s never been on a pay to play. I don’t think he markets directly. Everything he does comes through an agent or a manager.

And I had a moment of like, oh my gosh, you know, am I doing well or is that the career I should aspire to? You know what I mean? But truthfully, you really can’t compare. No. Natasha Machewka, I took her VO master to-do list, before I really even had a reason to have a to-do list in VO, but I was just so excited, I was taking anything and everything. Same time I was listening to your podcast and driving down to Denver, taking classes. And I took her thing and she was like, what’s your goal? And I was like, “Huh, what is it? What is my goal? What is my goal?” And she said, well, my goal is to make a full-time income in part-time hours.” And I was like, yep, that’s my goal too. That sounds perfect. And that’s what I’ve done. So, you know, you can’t compare your journey to somebody else who may have a completely different goal in the long run. My goal is full-time income in part-time hours, and I’ve done it. And everybody has a different path to achieve what it is they want to achieve.

Mike: And not only you had that early success, and as you said, there are ups and downs and you kind of go through the rollercoaster of what it’s like to be a freelance voice actor. But just this past year, you were one of the top 20 voices for 2020, so I want to make sure I that because that’s a testament to any question you may have about, I had that early success, but am I really a successful voice actor? There you go. One of the top 20 voices, so kudos to you for that.

Jessica: Well, thank you. They are really sweet, sweet people.

Mike: They are. And you are an incredibly talented voice actor. And I’ll tell you that that comparison thing is so important to people because I can’t tell you how many conversations I’ve had with people that would ask me about how to get started in VO. And there’s nothing wrong with being inspired by other people in the industry because that’s a good thing. So when I listen to an audiobook narrator that I admire, and I listen in my headphones, and I’m not only listening to the story, but I’m listening to the way that they read that story, how they narrate it, what their reflections are. Not that I want to be that person, but I know I can learn from that person and I can be inspired by that person, but I don’t compare myself to anybody because I’m telling you, I’ve had 120 plus interviews on this podcast, and everybody’s journey is different. Everybody! To a person, there is no roadmap. The only thing that you do is you learn from people around you. Just like you learn by listening to the podcast and taking Natasha’s course and meeting with your friend; you learn and absorb it all. Be a sponge, but be you, because that’s the key. You got to do you. And you’ve got to make sure that you keep that in the back of your mind. Comparison is the thief of joy. And it will also hold you back. I didn’t say that, somebody quoted that. Somebody much more famous than me. But I take no credit for it, only that I remembered it.

Jessica: You spouted it at the proper time.

Mike: I did. I did. But that’s the key. The key is, you can be inspired, but don’t compare yourself because that’ll stop you in your tracks, so I love that piece of advice. Love it. Love it. So listen, before we wrap up, where can people find you if they’re looking for you?

Jessica: You can find me on – I’m not as active on Instagram as I used to be. You know, social media is just a real trap for me. Sometimes I love it, sometimes I hate it. Sometimes if you want to read a great book, Digital Minimalism. There are times where I’m like, maybe I could be the one voice actor who doesn’t have social media accounts. I don’t know. But I go in phases. I’m on Instagram, jessicavo.com. My website is jessicavo.com. I’m on Facebook and most actively, I’m on LinkedIn right now. That’s probably my most active social media platform.

Mike: Good place to be active.

Jessica: Yeah, it’s a good place. I like it.

Mike: Yeah, it’s probably the best place to be active for sure. And I think we need to use that. I read a great article about how to make this phone that we carry around in us, this little computer, to don’t let that direct your life to make sure that you use that to help you but don’t have it control you. And I think the same can be said for social media. It can be a brain suck, or you can use it as a means to engage with people on a social level and also to promote the work that you do. So as long as you do that, I think you’ll be fine. Not you personally, but in general. You know what I mean, Jessica.

Jessica: Yes, I do.

Mike: Let me give you some advice, Jessica.

Jessica: Okay. I’m always open to advice.

Mike: Thank you. Thank you. So listen, it has been a pleasure to finally connect with you and have you on the podcast. I really appreciate you sharing your journey with me and my listeners, and I wish you continued success on your journey.

Jessica: Thanks, Mike. You too. I really appreciate it.

Outro: Thank you so much for joining me today on the Mike Lenz VO podcast. Head on over to mikelenzvopodcast.com for links and recaps of each show. Catch you next time on the Mike Lenz VO Podcast.